Road to Boston

Welcome to the blog!

At this point I would recommend base mileage, speed work does not help in the marathon until you are comfortably running at least 10 miles a day. Because you would hit other limiting factors before you are able to use what you've developed in the speed sessions. Also because without proper aerobic base you will not be able to push the body adequately to develop the speed in the speed sessions, unless you cut down the number of intervals and increase the rest.

So run as far as you can at a comfortable pace so that 24 hours later you can do it again day after day 6 days a week. Will probably be around 6 miles, but listen to your body on that. A little longer if you feel inclined before your rest day.

Thank you so much for visiting my blog. So let me make sure I understand your recommendation (which I take very seriously after looking at your running expertise!). You are saying don't bother with speedwork at all until I can basically run at least 60 miles per week (10 miles per day)? Is that correct? I do think I have a pretty good aerobic base from doing triathlon for the past five years, but I think you are saying that I'm better off spending my time getting a whole lot more mileage under my belt earlier in my training -- as opposed to the traditional single long run each week . . .

Thanks again for taking the time to offer assistance! I definitely want to take the road that will get me to Boston ;).

Anita - correct, learn to run 60 miles a week before you worry about speed. With the triathlon preparation some aspects of the aerobic base carry over and others do not. The heart and the lungs will be strong. However, the running muscle fibers will not be conditioned properly. Plus there is more to the aerobic base training than just using oxygen better. You are learning how to run efficiently and without injuries. So even then, I would still apply the same idea - gradually build up to 10 miles a day of easy running, and do a time trial or a 5-10 K race once in a while to see if you are on the right track.

If you are going from running 20-30 miles a week to 60 of base mileage, and everything is going right, no health issues, you normally see big improvements in all distances 5 K and up, and they come rather quickly. We have a large number of bloggers that have tried this approach with success, here is a couple of blogs you can study:

http://redsokx.fastrunningblog.com/

Check his 2008 training. He ended up running 3:10:30 in Bay State marathon entering it with a PR of 4:14 set only a few months earlier.

http://cocarolyn.fastrunningblog.com/

She went from running 2:07 half to 3:45 full marathon. It was rather interesting to watch her entering a Moab half in March not realizing how fast she was with a secret wish to break 2:00, then running a 1:49, and then nearly doubling that in her marathon 2 months later.

The blog PR in improvement belongs to Jeff Necessary

http://spiderpig.fastrunningblog.com/

who went from 4:46 to 3:33

Cody Draper is a close second improving from 3:44 to 2:38:

http://cody.fastrunningblog.com/

Those improvements, as well as many others, are based on a very simple, almost self-evident idea. We take the runner's natural speed and train him to use it for the whole 26 miles by building endurance. Amazingly, it is not uncommon to see a 1 hour improvement when you start racing a marathon rather than just surviving it.

Have you ever raced a 5 or 10 K, if yes, what is your best time? If not, it would be a good idea to race one or run a time trial to see what kind of speed you have.

Welcome to the blog Anita.

Sasha - I plan on taking that title away from SpiderPig someday.

Welcome to the blog Anita. Great job on those Yasso 800s. I have heard about them and have yet to try it out. I do know there is a different between running on the track and treadmill. I am just hitting the track more myself and finding it much harder to hit my splits like I would like to. And know on the treadmill I could. Because its easier to just cruise along then going out to fast which I seem to be doing.

Burt - if you wait a year, you'll have a shot at a 2 hour improvement. How about a goal to improve your marathon time by more than it takes Haile to run it (2:03:59)? This will make it hard for others to take it from you. It might even be in the world record range - they close the course at 6:00 so your competition would have to run at least sub-4:00 the next time around to beat you. Right now I think you'll run around 3:40, which still earns the title, but it will not be so cool.

You do have to take into account that it was a very slow time to begin with. I know I gave it my all and did try to follow a training program. I weighed about 20 lbs heavier and was not used to running in altitude or downhill that long. My previous high mileage was only a handful of 17 and 15 mile runs. The point is, anyone can go out and run a 6 hour marathon, then run a 3:40 on their next one. So is a 2:20 difference from a 6:00 to a 3:40 cooler than a 1:06 difference from a 3:44 to a 2:38? Maybe. Only because I know I was trying my best. (Sorry for rambling on your blog Anita.)

Oh ramble away!!!

I am wondering if there is a plan out there somewhere that will take me safely from my 30-35 miles per week to 60 miles per week over the course of the next 15 weeks . . .??? I'm great at following a plan. Not sure I'm too great at making them.

Also, is trail running okay as part of the mix. I love it, and I'm thinking that 60 miles is a lot of pounding . . .

Also, should some of the miles be at the pace I want to run the marathon? Or are these all easy miles? I thought I was all good following Hal Higdon's plan, and now it sounds like I need a "PLAN B"

Sasha - - Thanks for all the proof points. I will definitely check out those blogs.

Huans32 - Thanks for the warm welcome!!! I think you are right about the treadmill vs. the track - - which is why I'm anxious to get out on the track. But I do have my Garmin which really helps with pacing no matter where I'm running. Otherwise I'm like you - - start off too fast!!

Burt - Thanks so much for stopping in and saying hi!!!

Anita:

I am a big advocate of "Listen To Your Body" plan. It is very simple. You ask yourself what would the longest distance you could safely handle at a comfortable pace and recover from in 24 hours so you could feel as good before the start of your next run as when you started your run the day before. I suppose for you it would be around 6 miles. So you run do that every day with one day of rest. Maybe a little longer before your day of rest, let's say 8-10 miles. Do that for two or three weeks. If everything feels good, make 7 miles your minimum, and add a couple of miles to your long run. Give it another two or three weeks. Then up it to 8, then 9, then 10.

It is very important to listen to your body. If it says the mileage is too much, then back off to a safe level, and try again in a few weeks to see if maybe your body is ready.

Trail running is a good idea, especially if you like it and you are concerned about asphalt pounding. The pace should be comfortable. Do not force it. Monitor it for fun, and to get an idea of how you are progressing, but let your body choose the pace. When in doubt go slower during this phase.

Burt - cooler or not, I do not know. But I do know you can run 3:15 once some weight comes off, the aerobic fitness increases, and some of the wiring that gave you a sub-5:00 mile at one point gets rebuilt and reconnected. You are rather unique in the sense of having the ability to get unconditioned, and you are lucky to have taken a snapshot of that unconditioned state with a 5:18 marathon. This gives you a special opportunity to PR by a lot, a world-record level margin. Aside from bragging rights, this accomplishment will give the masses of 5:18 marathoners an idea that maybe deep down they might have a 3:15 in them, which I think has the potential of starting some sort of an improvement revolution. It would result not only in faster times, but a different mindset, and eventually a healthier country, physically and mentally.

Ok, so let's say I start doing this tomorrow. There's 15 weeks left until my marathon. So if I'm upping the mileage every two - three weeks, by the time of the marathon, I'd be up to about 10 miles per day with one longer run of 15 miles or so by the time of the marathon. Is that enough? Or do I need to accelerate that longer run somehow faster? I must say the whole thing is tremendously appealing as I much prefer running long and slow . . .but I'm just worried about whether the speed will come and also, don't I need a few 20 milers in there?? Thanks so much for taking the time to share your philosophy.

Anita- you will want to modify your training to emphasize the long run. Going into your first marathon with a long run of only 15 miles is asking for trouble. If there is a way to build up your long run so you get at least 1-3 runs of 20-22 miles, I would do that, even if it means you don't run 10 miles everyday. For example, maybe do a shorter 5-6 mile run Friday, and a longer run Saturday.

Anita - I agree with Jon. The long run can be pushed to 20 if you are running 8 a day consistently. Also, you can do something like this - 6,6 feel really good, try 8, still good, 8 again, back down to 6 just in case, next week try all 8s to build the mileage a bit faster. The numbers I am giving are not exact, and you do not have to hit them perfectly. Listen to your body feedback. If it says more is safe, go more. If you feel tender spots in muscles and bones, or overall fatigued and it does not go away mid-run, cut down and recover.

A quote from Renato Canova, an Italian world-class coach, paraphrasing, if you have a 100 day plan, after 10 days you are not on day 10 of a 100 day plan, you are on day 1 of a 90 day plan.

Hi, Anita! Welcome to the blog. I've learned a lot of good stuff just reading Sasha's comments to you. I'm sorta new to this blog myself. I would completely agree with the comments about speed training; I've never trained for speed before, just started, and I really think its good advice to wait until you've accomplished the mileage first. Right now, my workouts have focused more on speed and strength and less on miles, which is frustrating because I'm used to more miles, but I am hopeful about the outcome.

Jon - Thanks for your input! The good news is this is my second marathon, plus I've done a half Iron triathlon which is a sustained cardiac effort for over 6 hours. Nonetheless, I'm still in GREAT need of this advice because when I did the first marathon, I used a beginning training program and simply had the goal of finishing. I actually felt like I ran that marathon too slow because I felt like I still had quite a bit "in the tank" at the end. I think a very realistic pace for me would be 9:20 min/mi, but I really want to do 8:45 min/mi. So the question is how do I get from point A to point B. I thought speedwork was the way, but given Sasha's background and experience, I'm quite tempted to give his philosophy a shot. I appreciate you chiming in on my question because 15 miles sounded short to me!!

Sasha - GOT IT!!! Ok, I'm going to give it a try. My best guess is that I could start with 7's because I trained hard over the winter and only recently "let up" to do incorporate speedwork starting in April. But to be on the safe side, I'll do what you suggest and do a week of sixes and then start incorporating longer and longer runs into the mix. With one long run each week. Thanks for the advice. I really hope it works for me!!

Auntieem - Many thanks for the warm welcome!! It sounds like you now have the mileage going under your belt and have just started to incorporate the speedwork? I will check out your blog for sure to see how it is going. I'd love to know more about the transition and how it works for you and what races you are doing.

So you've done a marathon and a 1/2 Ironman? Wow. I second what Sasha says about running at least 60 miles/week before adding speedwork. That doesn't mean some days can't be a bit faster and some a bit slower (if you feel good one day, push it hard, and if not, go easier), but specific speedwork like 800m repeats will be more beneficial with higher mileage. Also, if running the same mileage everyday is monotonous, or you just want some variety, you can do something like 6 one day, 8 the next, then 7, 9, 6, long run. Something like that- a little variation is nice.

I hope you make your goals and qualify for Boston. Running through the Scream Tunnel at your alma mater is something you will never forget. Literally- I think it permanently damages your hearing ;)

Jon - Yes, I've been very focused on triathlon for the past four years, but honestly running is really my love. I.suck.at.swimming!!! Can't really state it any better than that. I enjoy cycling, but someone I know, a very experienced cyclist, just had a huge accident that left him on a ventilator and paralyzed at least temporarily. I'm not so sure about racing now. So for the time being, I am returning to my real love which is running. The problem is that in the past, I have been prone to injury as mileage increases . . .I think I have more all over strength now so I'm hopeful that maybe this time I can avoid it. We'll see.

Thank you for your good wishes on Boston! I know I will LOVE running Boston if I ever get there. I figure eventually the qualifying time will be slow enough for me to make it . . .but I'd love to do it in the next couple of years.